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 Post subject: Re: Rebranding Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:06 am 
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FFM wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
The ONLY FACT WE KNOW is that Ireland is the GM. The GM is responsible for drafting. Ryan Tannehill was drafted.


See the part in bold?

First: the Teflon Jeff supporters make an argument that wasn't the case when Parcells was in the building. If true, then this clearly isn't always the case. If not true, then Teflon Jeff deserves to be criticized for the significant failures in the first 3 years of his tenure.

Second, and more significantly, is Ireland himself saying the following:

Quote:
"Steve [Ross] is very engaged, but he's also very supportive in leaving the decisions to the draft up to me, and coach (Joe) Philbin, and our scouts and football staff," Ireland told PFT Live on Monday.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... ball-staff

Let's get something out of the way: in the 2012 draft, Ireland HIMSELF says the draft decisions were a consensus effort. Ergo your assumption that the GM is responsible for drafting was not 100% the case in the 2012 draft.

Third, having established that Ireland did not make draft decisions by himself in 2012, what we don't know is which voice had the greatest power in making a decision out of the group Ireland lists. Was it Ireland? Or was it Philbin? *Plenty* of head coaches have significant say in the draft, some have final say (see Jeff Fisher). Neither Teflon Jeff supporters or detractors know who had the biggest say in the draft. BUT - Philbin is the new guy, with a new system, one that Ireland has NEVER been associated with (fact), and Ireland just survived three straight losing seasons with the last head coach getting fired (fact). In the event the final say was with Ireland - if Philbin *really* wanted Tannehill does anyone honestly think Teflon Jeff would dare draft someone different? We have a quote from Teflon Jeff's friend Gil Brandt saying Teflon Jeff wasn't high on Tannehill in Jan, but later - after Philbin and Sherman was hired - Teflon Jeff asked Brandt if he had recommended Tannehill to anyone else. If one uses powers of deduction (I know, certain people seem afraid to do this) - the offensive coordinator, Tannehill's college Head Coach, emphasized Tannehill had the goods. I don't doubt Teflon Jeff and the scouts did their own assessment to verify - they wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't. But without Sherman and Philbin pulling for Tannehill, there's no way he's the pick at #8.

I'll go a step further. Imagine Sherman said Tannehill didn't have what it takes. Does anyone believe Tannehill would have been the pick at #8 without his endorsement, no matter what Ireland and the scouts thought?

Beyond Tannehill I believe 2012 was still a group effort identifying players who would fit the new offensive and defensive systems. It is reasonable to deduct that Philbin and the coaches had heavy input into the draft. That doesn't mean Teflon Jeff didn't have any input - I'm sure he worked along side of the coaches to evaluate the players and participated in the decisions.

To that end, based on Ireland's direct quote above, the 2012 draft was a collaborative process.

------

So, drafting without Philbin: questionable to bad.
Drafting with Philbin: better.
Coaching with Philbin: better.

Philbin's the guy (unless things go south in a hurry).



There is no doubt in my mind that Sherman and Philbin exposed Jeff to Tannehill. The bottom line is he still pulled the trigger.. And I'm fine with your rationale. I am not fine with this conspiracy that Ross made Ireland draft Tannehill. Because nothing you or anyone said provides any argument for that. Which is exactly the point I was trying to make originally. Any smart GM would listen to the inside knowledge of his staff. Be it scouts or coaches. Ireland's quote about Ross clearly says leaving the draft decisions to me. ASSUMING he is being honest...(hooray more speculation) Any IDIOT of a GM would listen to his owner. But, as Jeff said in that quote himself. Ultimately it's up to him. So otherwise.. It's speculation without much merit. What DOES hold merit is what you said about Philbin and Sherman influencing Ireland. I'll definitely buy that.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebranding Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Ross didn't *demand* that Miami draft Tannehill.

"Ireland admitted Ross throwing out suggestions, but in the forum of a discussion, not heavy-handed "recommendations."

But, Ross DID say getting an upgrade at QB was the #1 offseason priority. Not many options after the draft.

Image

That's the Dolphins Draft War Room. That's Teflon Jeff sitting in between Philbin and Ross. How many owners sit in the war room? If Philbin wants Tannehill at #8 and Ross wants a QB...

It's easy math. Teflon Jeff could of had DeCastro the #1 rated player by a mile but sitting there between those two men, if Philbin says "take Tannehill" is there ANY chance in hell Teflon Jeff takes a different player?

Maybe Teflon Jeff arrived at his own conclusion, but Teflon Jeff IS a Parcells protege (fact), and Tannehill doesn't fit Parcell's famous four rules for drafting a QB:

Quote:

He must be a senior, because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback.
He must be a graduate, because you want someone who takes his responsibilities seriously.
He must be a three-year starter, because you need to make sure his success wasn’t ephemeral and that he has lived as “the guy” for some period of time.
He must have at least 23 wins, because the big passing numbers must come in the context of winning games.


We'll never know exactly what Teflon Jeff was thinking. But all of the available evidence points to the drafting of Tannehill due to Philbin and Sherman, with a dash of Ross clamoring for a QB, rather than some miraculous transformation by Teflon Jeff.

Mind you, many of the fans on this board weren't sold on Tannehill before the draft. Shoot, we're all counting our chickens because it's still no sure thing that he's going to be the franchise QB we're desperate for.

-----

The true issue here however isn't did Teflon Jeff draft Tannehill all by himself.

Before Philbin: not so good drafts.
With Philbin: apparently better draft.
With Philbin: better coaching.

Is Ireland the right GM to be helping on drafts or calling the shots on drafts? Based on the information on hand I continue to have concerns about his ability to identify talent, with or without Philbin's input.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebranding Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:05 pm 
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These two FFM quotes say it all:

Quote:
We'll never know exactly what Teflon Jeff was thinking. But all of the available evidence points to the drafting of Tannehill due to Philbin and Sherman, with a dash of Ross clamoring for a QB, rather than some miraculous transformation by Teflon Jeff.


and

Quote:
Is Ireland the right GM to be helping on drafts or calling the shots on drafts? Based on the information on hand I continue to have concerns about his ability to identify talent, with or without Philbin's input.


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 Post subject: Re: Rebranding Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Finfan33 wrote:
IMO Ireland didn't even try to fight for Sparano in that case and here is why.

Ross said after it was over and EVERYONE throughout the league and in the media was in an uproar about how Sparano was treated, that he didn't know people would be watching so closely and even go so far as to track his plane movements to see where he was going.

If Ireland had Sparano's back he would have told Ross that "this is a bad idea to hunt for a new coach while you have one still on payroll. The fans and media are going to track you and watch your every move. This is going to give the Fins a black eye and tarnish your reputation as an owner".

When my boss tells me to do something that I know and can prove is wrong I argue my case to the point of going too far and even then have it put in an email so I have proof it wasn't my idea.

I guess Ireland is either not that smart or is a YES man. Either way he dry boned his good friend then and a year later threw him under the bus and personally took over as the driver of that but by blaming all that is wrong with the Fins on Sparano.


Nobody knows what was said in the conversations between ross and fireland. You would THINK that fireland would have mentioned how bad the PR hit was going to be to ross about looking for a coach when you currently have on on payroll.

fireland may be lots of things, but dumb, he is not. He is DEFINITELY a yes man. No doubt about that. CYA Baby.

IMO it is telling about the relationship you have with your boss if you just bow down and do every little stupid ass thing he tells you to do just because "He is the boss". There are ways to still not disrespect your boss and stand up to him.

Is fireland smart enough to do this? Who knows? More likely IMO, he just went with the "company way" to save his ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebranding Ireland
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:29 pm 
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scotgif1 wrote:
There are ways to still not disrespect your boss and stand up to him.


I became quite good at that, if I do say so myself :evilgrin: It's a skill that, sadly, can't be taught.

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All I want for Christmas is Jeff Ireland fired, Jeff Ireland fired, Jeff Ireland fired...


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