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 Post subject: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:47 pm 
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There has been a lot of talk on the boards about Offensive Lines not being that important.

And I would like to say this.. Since the offensive line has completely gone down the shitter. Our offense has been ABSOLUTELY stagnant. We can't run.. so we can't open up the pass. OH and btw.. when we do try to pass. We can't protect our rookie QB.

No one is going to make me believe otherwise. A LOT of the success of ANY offense has to do with the line.

The fact that Ireland has been rebuilding the line for 5 years.. Should be a direct INDICTMENT of his failure as a GM. Yes I said it. There is absolutely no defense for this. It used to be.. we had a premiere left tackle. GONE. We DO have a premiere Center.. We had a young budding RT that we drafted.. Who.. guess what.. Is doing more dying then he is budding. DONE. We have 2 fatties at guard in a West Coast scheme.. PLEASE.

Keep Pouncey.. If Jerry can't get underweight (And I'm talking lose another 20 pounds because he IS a hell of an athlete for that size.. imagine him 20 lbs lighter).. cut him otherwise. Incognito.. at times has played well. But, he's very inconsistent. It's hard to tell if it's because he is trying to cover for Jake Long's fucking inadequacies. I would keep Richie.. But, also ask him to lose another 10 pounds. Martin needs to go back to his natural position. If he can't cut it there. Demote him until he can do SOMETHING on the line.

PS. Eric DeCosta please.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:12 pm 
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Around the NFL, QBs are producing and teams are winning without great OLs. Obviously your OL can't be complete garbage (see Philadelphia), but it also doesn't need to be great (see Green Bay).

I've said it a million times, but I'll repeat it again. The NFL has changed. Having a QB that can quickly read, react and release is more important than having a good OL. The best QBs today drop back three steps and throw, minimizing the need for the OL to sustain their blocks for a long time. If you have a QB that is slow to read and react and doesn't have a quick release, then by all means you'd better have a great OL that can hold their blocks for 5 seconds - but those types of QBs aren't winning championships, because defenses today are just too big, strong and fast to contain for any length of time. That's the way of the league, and if your QB can't hack it, you'll never get a ring.

As far as Miami's line, next year I'd keep Pouncey at Center and move Martin to LT, and I'd bring in a new RT, RG and LG. Incognito and Jerry are slow and not athletic, and Long has seemingly lost any ability he ever had. Jerry's not going to lose any weight...if anything I'm sure he'll balloon up to 400 pounds in the offseason. Bottom line is Long, Incognito and Jerry all suck and need to go. Martin has struggled at RT, but I expect him to build up his strength in the offseason and I think he'll play better at his natural position.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:16 pm 
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Who has said the offensive line is unimportant? I think what they've argued is that you don't have to draft offensive lineman in the first and second rounds to have a successful OL. It's draft strategy, not significance.

Take the Packers OL as an example:

LT: Marshall Newhouse, 5th round
LG: Evan Dietrich-Smith, undrafted
C: Jeff Saturday, FA
RG: Josh Sitton, 4th round
RT: TJ Lang, 4th round

NY Giants:
LT: Will Beatty, 2nd round
LG: Kevin Boothe, FA
C: David Baas, FA
RG: Chris Snee, 2nd round
RT: Sean Locklear, FA

Some teams do use a lot of 1st round picks on OL, like the Patriots and 49ers. But that's not the only way to build a successful line.

Ireland's pick of Pouncey looks to be a good one. I don't think he deserves the credit for Long, although the blush is certainly failing on that rose. Martin was "good value" where Miami took him and *hopefully* is even better value as an insurance policy if he should be able to step in for Jake Long if Miami lets him go via free agency. That remains to be seen though.

The fact is, Miami needs players on the OL. In defense of Ireland: is it his fault that guys he drafted for the previous scheme don't fit the new one?


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:22 pm 
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FFM wrote:
The fact is, Miami needs players on the OL. In defense of Ireland: is it his fault that guys he drafted for the previous scheme don't fit the new one?


To run the WCO scheme maybe or maybe not but IMO run blocking is run blocking no matter what scheme you run.

This offensive line blows at EVERYTHING they try to do lately.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:23 pm 
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The good news is we have plenty of draft picks. The bad news is we will using them to plug holes in our O-line.

I say rent Long for 1 year with the franchise tag. I know he's not worth that money, but what were paying for is the ability to use our early picks wisely on future pro-bowlers at the skill positions.
Replace Incognito.
Keep Jerry and Martin were they are. Pick between Jennings,Wallace and Bowe. Draft a WR EARLY. We need a stud TE desperately. Insert generic RB. Done. O-line and offense fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:33 pm 
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The problem is that there isn't a plethora of great talent at many of the skill positions that we need.

DB is ok but not very deep in this draft.

WR is not bad in the 1st two rounds but then takes a nose dive after that IMO.

TE is as shallow in this draft as I have seen in quite some time. There are 2 TE's I really like and 2 I could be sold on and that is it.

RB, I haven't really even been paying attention to that position so NYF or Bird may be able to answer that one better.

BUT, this draft is as deep as Florida sink hole at O-line, D-line and LB.

I would look at maybe addressing WR, TE and perhaps DB in FA.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:39 pm 
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JMP wrote:
Around the NFL, QBs are producing and teams are winning without great OLs. Obviously your OL can't be complete garbage (see Philadelphia), but it also doesn't need to be great (see Green Bay).

Yeah but Philly thought their line was good enough. If you get it wrong the season is done before it begins.


Quote:
As far as Miami's line, next year I'd keep Pouncey at Center and move Martin to LT, and I'd bring in a new RT, RG and LG.

That's four position changes and four unproven players. Yikes. Risky and expensive. Remember it could always be worse.

Quote:
Bottom line is Long, Incognito and Jerry all suck and need to go. Martin has struggled at RT, but I expect him to build up his strength in the offseason and I think he'll play better at his natural position.

You may be right in the long run, but doing it all at once makes success more unlikely.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:00 pm 
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DB's are too expensive in FA. I'd go for that in the draft. Jared Cook or Keller in FA for TE. WR is a position I'd spend money on. We need playmakers.. And the FA market at WR is a real good one next year. Jennings. Welker. Bowe. D. Henderson to name a couple. I want Welker back in Miami PAIRED with Bowe. I know it seems farfetched. But, we have the money.. And the flexibility running Bowe as your primary and Welker/Bess able to man AND alternate the other two positions would be sweet. Throw in a Jared Cook into the mix. Bowe or Jennings is a MUST though. This team DESPERATELY needs red zone threats.

I'd draft the best DB OR passrusher available in round 1. Then in round 2 address whichever one you didn't get. THEN I'd draft yet ANOTHER passrusher and CB. Then go O-line. DT. In my mind.. if WR gets addressed in FA. You MUST focus on passrushers and DB's. PLAYMAKING DB's.

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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Quote:
Yeah but Philly thought their line was good enough. If you get it wrong the season is done before it begins.


Read what I wrote again: you don't need a great line if you have a QB that can read, react and get the ball out quickly. The Eagles don't have a QB that fits that description. So yeah, a better OL would likely have helped Vick...but Vick isn't leading them to the Super Bowl even with a Hall of Fame OL.

Quote:
That's four position changes and four unproven players. Yikes. Risky and expensive. Remember it could always be worse.


It's a low risk IMO. If it fails, we have a bad OL...which is what we have currently, so we haven't lost anything. What makes more sense: continuing to stick with something that isn't working, or trying something different?

Quote:
You may be right in the long run, but doing it all at once makes success more unlikely.


Why would it make success more unlikely? If anything, I think it gives you a chance to get better - because in theory you are adding players that fit your scheme and dumping players that don't. You put 5 O-lineman together from day one and let them work together throughout mini-camps, training camp and pre-season. That's plenty of time for a line to gel. Besides, what we did this year wasn't much different when you consider that our OL had to learn an entirely new offense and blocking scheme, and Martin had to learn a new position.


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 Post subject: Re: Offensive Line
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Quote:
Jared Cook or Keller in FA for TE.


Keller would be my #1 free agent target if he's available. I'm praying the Jets don't franchise him, but I suspect they will.


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