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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Location: THe one place Miami will never be.....a champion
Some times not everyone sees the win/loss ratio or the simple fact that the players that are draft aren't good. They mostly are looking at the simple fact that Miami has more players playing then actually winning. IMO, second best is a huge stretch.


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:40 pm 
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I'm sure that "he who shall not be named" has pinned this to his refrigerator!

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Nice try FFM, but I'm not falling for that one :lol: Or reading the article. The Pro Bowl selections bit as part of his criteria was especially hilarious.

FFM wrote:
(1) Total games started: just because a guy starts doesn't make him good, let alone *great*. Hartline, Bess, Misi, Smith, Davis, Clemons, and others typify why this metric doesn't reflect the idea of "best" at drafting: not a single great player in the bunch.

(2) # of players active for 2012: just because drafted players are active doesn't make them *good*. If your team stunk, any scrub drafted is going to make the team. The 5 year assessment period started immediately after Miami's dismal 1-15 season. So yeah, a lot of the drafted guys would stick on the roster through 2012.


I have been saying this for YEARS. As usual, it takes someone else saying the exact same thing for people to finally take it seriously. Story of my life (sighs).

Quote:
(4) Pro Bowl selections... are meaningless. A better statistical measure would be to weight them based on their ranking at their positions. That gets messy/difficult, but would at least be a more defined and objective way to compare players.


I cannot remember any Fins draftee making the Pro Bowl even WITH the new watered down "standards". Can you? Incognito was there this time but he's not a draftee. Neither are Burnett or Dansby. Or Wake. So it would seem even the rare Fins' Pro Bowlers aren't coming out of the draft :lol:

This guy must've been paid by certain people to come out with that dreck (still not reading it). That's the only explanation.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:00 pm 
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We need PLAYMAKERS. And we need Philbin to teach Ireland how to identify them. And hope that Philbin can even identify them to begin with.


Yep. Spot on.

Part of the problem is that we have a GM and coach with vastly different philosophies. Fireland is coming from the Parcells school of thought, where bigger is better and games are won in the trenches by running the ball and stopping the run. Philbin comes from a team that made it's living with a fast-paced, high-scoring offense, where speed kills in all phases and big plays win games. We're now asking Philbin to teach Fireland how to get players that fit the new mold, and to me, that's like a bird teaching a fish to fly. It seems like a recipe for disaster to me, and I think it would've made much more sense to bring in a GM that shared the coach's philosophy.

I know, I know...we're not supposed to say anything bad about Fireland. But I truly believe this whole Dolphin hierarchy is flawed, and it seems like an absurd way to build a team. I guess we just have to hope that Fireland is a quick learner...

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:20 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:02 am 
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JMP wrote:
Part of the problem is that we have a GM and coach with vastly different philosophies. Fireland is coming from the Parcells school of thought, where bigger is better and games are won in the trenches by running the ball and stopping the run. Philbin comes from a team that made it's living with a fast-paced, high-scoring offense, where speed kills in all phases and big plays win games. We're now asking Philbin to teach Fireland how to get players that fit the new mold, and to me, that's like a bird teaching a fish to fly. It seems like a recipe for disaster to me, and I think it would've made much more sense to bring in a GM that shared the coach's philosophy.

I know, I know...we're not supposed to say anything bad about Fireland. But I truly believe this whole Dolphin hierarchy is flawed, and it seems like an absurd way to build a team. I guess we just have to hope that Fireland is a quick learner...

:deadhorse:


You've got it all wrong, JMP.. it's not that anyone is asking you NOT to say anything bad about Jeff Ireland, but just to be accurate in what you're saying.

Every single move last off-season reflected a collaboration between Joe Philbin as HC and Jeff Ireland as GM. Drafting a QB in the 1st Round. Drafting a zone-blocking OT in the 2nd round that Parcells never would've drafted, a speed back in 4th round in Lamar Miller that would've been out of character for a Parcells-driven team. WR Brandon Marshall and CB Vontae Davis were traded were traded for draft picks while we ate their salary numbers, in the prime of their careers (bad attitudes that a new HC wouldn't want to work with). SPARANO was the brain child of Parcells, not Ireland. Sparano and Parcells never hid their "grind it out" mentality, but Ireland was the one constantly challenging Parcells in War Rooms with both the Dolphins and Cowboys.

But.. I've put myself out there. If Ireland's off-season results in beefing up the OL and DL's, I'll throw him directly under the bus and chant with the rest of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:46 pm 
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316. Jake Long made the pro bowl every year but this one since being drafted. That's going to skew the numbers. I think Carpenter made it one year too. Soliai. Brown. Both drafted dolphins and made pro bowl.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:01 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
316. Jake Long made the pro bowl every year but this one since being drafted. That's going to skew the numbers. I think Carpenter made it one year too. Soliai. Brown. Both drafted dolphins and made pro bowl.


Soliai and Brown weren't drafted by "he who shall not be named". In fact, most people think, (he who shall not be named) wasn't responsible for the first two drafts when Parcells was here. That means (he who shall not be named) hasn't drafted a pro bowl player yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:10 pm 
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CarsonChris wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
316. Jake Long made the pro bowl every year but this one since being drafted. That's going to skew the numbers. I think Carpenter made it one year too. Soliai. Brown. Both drafted dolphins and made pro bowl.


Soliai and Brown weren't drafted by "he who shall not be named". In fact, most people think, (he who shall not be named) wasn't responsible for the first two drafts when Parcells was here. That means (he who shall not be named) hasn't drafted a pro bowl player yet.


Nope. They weren't. But, this report isn't about who drafted who. Just who went to the pro-bowl that was drafted by Miami. We don't know if they considered guys who were drafted in the past 5 years. Or guys who were drafted by Miami in general.

And you guys can knock off the "He who shall not be named" stuff anytime. You can say the guys name without bashing him. I'm not sure it's going over very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:02 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
This analysis proves what I've been saying. What a lot of us have said. Jeff Ireland is able to draft starters. He puts some solid guys on the field. Key word. Solid. He just has not.. and seems like he cannot.. find playmakers. And playmakers are what translate into victories. Solid guys translate into a mediocre team. Point. Blank. The best we can hope for. (And it seems like this is what is going on) Is that Philbin is putting his 2 cents in on playmaking types. I also just want to point out.. That PERHAPS some of the talent we've had..may have better developed with better coaching. Perhaps Philbin can succeed where none of the others did.


Id add here that to some degree I think thats been the plan all along. We have been more concerned with building a foundation with lunch pail types since Ireland was pulling the trigger. Id say we succeeded in that venture and now the obvious is to now find the difference makers. From a fans perspective, we want playmakers and probowlers and nothing but. But to look down at the state of the team now, with the money, the lunchpailers who could continue to improve and the draft picks, im pleased with where were at, and I think the FO sees it that way as well.

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