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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:35 pm 
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Caleb wrote:
hypocritex wrote:
This analysis proves what I've been saying. What a lot of us have said. Jeff Ireland is able to draft starters. He puts some solid guys on the field. Key word. Solid. He just has not.. and seems like he cannot.. find playmakers. And playmakers are what translate into victories. Solid guys translate into a mediocre team. Point. Blank. The best we can hope for. (And it seems like this is what is going on) Is that Philbin is putting his 2 cents in on playmaking types. I also just want to point out.. That PERHAPS some of the talent we've had..may have better developed with better coaching. Perhaps Philbin can succeed where none of the others did.


Id add here that to some degree I think thats been the plan all along. We have been more concerned with building a foundation with lunch pail types since Ireland was pulling the trigger. Id say we succeeded in that venture and now the obvious is to now find the difference makers. From a fans perspective, we want playmakers and probowlers and nothing but. But to look down at the state of the team now, with the money, the lunchpailers who could continue to improve and the draft picks, im pleased with where were at, and I think the FO sees it that way as well.


Well now is the time to draft playmakers.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:08 pm 
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Quote:
Id add here that to some degree I think thats been the plan all along. We have been more concerned with building a foundation with lunch pail types since Ireland was pulling the trigger. Id say we succeeded in that venture and now the obvious is to now find the difference makers. From a fans perspective, we want playmakers and probowlers and nothing but. But to look down at the state of the team now, with the money, the lunchpailers who could continue to improve and the draft picks, im pleased with where were at, and I think the FO sees it that way as well.


The problem is that Fireland has already had 5 years as the team's GM. It's fine to build a foundation...but 5 years later that foundation is still weak and in progress, and we haven't added any difference makers along the way.

There are absolutely no excuses for the state of this roster 5 years later. It's embarrassing.


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:06 pm 
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The problem is that Fireland has already had 5 years as the team's GM. It's fine to build a foundation...but 5 years later that foundation is still weak and in progress, and we haven't added any difference makers along the way.

There are absolutely no excuses for the state of this roster 5 years later. It's embarrassing.


how is the foundation weak and still in progress? better yet when is ever not in progress? for any team? we were basically a 500 team with no play makers and a rookie QB. Id say the foundation is better than embarrasssing.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:19 pm 
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how is the foundation weak and still in progress?


Huh? OL, secondary, WR and TE are all in disastrous shape right now. The D-line is a question mark with Starks being a FA. The LB corps is nothing special. The RB position is a question mark.

QB is the only position I haven't mentioned, but even that is questionable, with an unproven starter and a question mark at backup.

And this is after 5 years...amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:26 pm 
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JMP wrote:
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how is the foundation weak and still in progress?


Huh? OL, secondary, WR and TE are all in disastrous shape right now. The D-line is a question mark with Starks being a FA. The LB corps is nothing special. The RB position is a question mark.

QB is the only position I haven't mentioned, but even that is questionable, with an unproven starter and a question mark at backup.

And this is after 5 years...amazing.


I think we are in a prime position to make a leap forward this year "if" the right players are drafted and signed. I could envision an 11 win team and AFC east title. Listening to Philbin, he was not impressed too much by Hartline and Bess or numerous players on this team.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:39 pm 
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I think we are in a prime position to make a leap forward this year "if" the right players are drafted and signed.


I've thought that many times...but still waiting for that "if" to happen...

And of course, every team can and does say that same thing.

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I could envision an 11 win team and AFC east title.


Far too early to predict anything like that, but I do know this: as long as Tom Brady is healthy, 11 wins isn't winning the AFC East.

Quote:
Listening to Philbin, he was not impressed too much by Hartline


So I'm not alone??? :ROFL:


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:14 pm 
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JMP wrote:
The problem is that Fireland has already had 5 years as the team's GM. It's fine to build a foundation...but 5 years later that foundation is still weak and in progress, and we haven't added any difference makers along the way.

There are absolutely no excuses for the state of this roster 5 years later. It's embarrassing.


Again.. JMP.. it goes back to what I've been saying.

Ireland became GM in 2008, but didn't have final say until Parcells was out of the building.

But what you're saying here, JMP, is that Ireland had the opportunity to rebuild this club 5 years ago and it failed. Not the case. He wasn't making those decisions, and the decisions that WERE made had Parcells' handprint all over them. Did Ireland have say? Sure. But he wasn't directing the vision. Rebuilding in 2008 was NOT an option with Bill Parcells in the building.

The Dolphins didn't rebuild in 2008. They patched up holes with veterans. They had an OLD team in 2008, not a young rebuilding team. And who do you think was responsible for that? Ireland, who has shown a commitment to building through the draft and not Free Agency in the last 2 years.. or Parcells, who was 67 in 2008 and a figure known for having 3 or 4 year stints with his team before moving on?

In 2008.. the Dolphins had a 32-year-old QB in Chad Pennington, a veteran RB tandem in Ricky and Ronnie, and a Defense where 8 of the 11 starters 30 or older. This was NOT a rebuilding team. It was a veteran team thrown together to give Bill Parcells the best chances of winning in a 3-year period. It didn't work. And it's why I've always said 2012 was a rebuilding year - drafting a QB in the 1st round for the first time since 1983, trading Vontae Davis and Brandon Marshall, avoiding FA almost completely, stockpiling draft picks.

NOW, for the first time, Ireland has the full decision-making power, draft picks, and money to judge him on. He MIGHT fuck all of this up. But I'll wait to see on that.


Last edited by NYF on Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Building a foundation . . . more BS. That's an excuse. You say, "We're going to build a foundation so that in 3-5 years we can get playmakers." Then in 3-5 years most of your foundation is gone because of how the league works and free agency, not to mention injuries, etc. It's just an excuse that bad GMs use to keep their jobs. You can build depth AND get playmakers. As a matter of fact you should ALWAYS BE DOING BOTH. One is not mutually exclusive of each other.

Also, this guy's draft metrics are crap. What determines a good draft is performance, not starting time. Talent wins championships, not muckers and grinders. Sure, you need those guys, but what's harder to find, a star or a foundation player?


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:33 pm 
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But what you're saying here, JMP, is that Ireland had the opportunity to rebuild this club 5 years ago and it failed. Not the case. He wasn't making those decisions, and the decisions that WERE made had Parcells' handprint all over them. Did Ireland have say? Sure. But he wasn't directing the vision. Rebuilding in 2008 was NOT an option with Bill Parcells in the building.


I know this has been debated millions of times, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Fireland played with tinker toys while Parcells ran the team. Fireland was the General Manager, and earned a high salary for that job. If you really think he did nothing all those years, then why is he still a GM today? Surely even Ross would not have kept a GM that did nothing.

During Parcells' time with the Dolphins, he did one thing: he cashed checks. There is no way I'll ever believe that he was hands-on and ran the day-to-day operations of the team. No way. Fireland was the GM, his stamp was on every move the Dolphins made, and he was responsible. Did he have input from Parcells? Absolutely. But Fireland is the one that oversaw the scouts, and he's the one that was actively looking at college players. You think Parcells was sifting through hours of tape and flying to colleges all over the country? Get real...that's the GM's job.

And the "vision" you're talking about was indeed Parcells'..and considering that Fireland learned his trade under Parcells...well, it all adds up.

Quote:
NOW, for the first time, Ireland has the full decision-making power, draft picks, and money to judge him on.


So what exactly was Jeff Fireland's job prior to 2011? Was he Parcells' gopher? Was he on the maintenance staff? Maybe he worked in the kitchen? This whole "Fireland wasn't responsible for anything prior to 2011" is a complete load of garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: Draftmetrics: Miami 2nd best at drafting past 5 years
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 2:34 pm 
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Quote:
Building a foundation . . . more BS. That's an excuse. You say, "We're going to build a foundation so that in 3-5 years we can get playmakers." Then in 3-5 years most of your foundation is gone because of how the league works and free agency, not to mention injuries, etc. It's just an excuse that bad GMs use to keep their jobs. You can build depth AND get playmakers. As a matter of fact you should ALWAYS BE DOING BOTH. One is not mutually exclusive of each other.


Exactly. Year after year we see teams build a winner in one offseason. Yet somehow it takes the Dolphins decades.


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