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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:36 pm 
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To me, "elite" means the best of the best. Wake is great, but IMHO he's not the best pass rusher in football. And that's OK - he's an awesome player and we're fortunate to have him on the Phins.


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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:41 pm 
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More pressures then anyone. In the top 5 in sacks last few years. AND he's actually good against the run.

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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:57 pm 
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JLFINFAN wrote:
Bravo. Awesome read.


Only on this board can you find a write up like this. The Herald or Post would never have something so brilliant.

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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:03 pm 
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Tank Carradine, he didn't get 11 sacks last year being a bad pass rusher. I think he's the perfect fit for Miami and could slide into the 3rd/4th round.

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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:20 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
I can tell you he has had plenty of blind side success in the past.


First thing, this isn't meant to be a Cameron Wake bashing article.
Secondly, I do not post things I have not researched with my own eyes or say things off the cuff.
Thirdly, I don't have tape of his 5.5 sacks from the 2009 season but I have 2010, 2011, 2012.

Number of times Cam Wake has sacked the QB from the Weak-Side = 1

2010 Total number of sacks = 14. Sacks from the Weak Side = 1 (LE/LOLB)
2011 Total number of sacks = 8.5. Sacks from the Weak Side = 0 (LE/LOLB)
2012 Total number of sacks = 15. Sacks from the Weak Side = 0 (RE/LE)

A breakdown of Cameron's one sack from the Weak Side
The only sack Cameron had from weak side was in 2010 versus Pittsburgh.
The situation was 3rd and 9
Pittsburgh was in what we would call GUN TRIPS HB WEAK - 3WR, 1TE, 1HB
Miami was in a Sub 2-3-6 package showing blitz with 9 stacked in the box
SS Bell was showing blitz and corners were in bump and run.
Miami sent a 6 Man Rush
Miami overloaded the weak side with Wake, Misi, and Bell
DT Starks faked rushed inside and then fell back into a QB spy zone in the shallow middle
PIT LG picked up Misi and PIT LT got sealed off on the outside
PIT LT and HB picked up Bell on safety blitz
DT Starks faint rush to the inside was critical, as it held PITs Center long enough for Cameron to run a stunt to the inside A gap
Cameron was untouched to the QB

That is Cameron's only sack from the weak side. Fact.

Cameron is an elite speed rusher with an explosive burst, however he struggles against athletic Left Tackles who have the footwork and length to ride him on the outside arc and effectively take him out of the play. He is an elite speed rusher but he is not as effective as JPP or Julius Peppers on the weak-side. He has struggled on the weak side. Fact.

I always look at the broader picture and our overall scheme. If I were to ask Julius Peppers to do what Cam Wake did from the LOLB position, Julius would fail miserably. But as far a gap containment and collapsing the weak-side 1v1 against Left Tackles, I will take JPP and Julius Peppers 100% of the time. By no means am I suggesting that Cam does not have a role on this team. The article is trying to show that we need a RE capable of playing in that isolated role in the "OVER Front" or we need to change our front to an "Under Front".

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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:44 pm 
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I'm guessing it's a small sample size for Cameron Wake lining up at RE though?

There's definitely no doubt we need a RE pass rushing specialist. I think they thought they were going to groom Vernon into that role, but it looks more to me like Vernon would be better suited at the LE position.


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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:22 pm 
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Degarmo wrote:
I'm guessing it's a small sample size for Cameron Wake lining up at RE though?


Yes Degarmo, quite rightly so. He took the majority of snaps from strong-side, I wish I had the exact splits of LOLB vs ROLB and LE vs RE reps.
The instances where he has come from the weak-side he has struggled to be as dominant, to the point where he looks average.

But the original article is less about Cam and more about what we lack in our scheme and alignment.
The reason I highlighted Cam is too show that its not as simple as plug and play on the right side.

Further more, the league has become such a passing league, that teams are starting to look at the Nickle Corner as a starter on the board. So even when we are in Nickle or Sub formation variations, and we effectively sub-tract a LB, its even more imperative that we are able to get a dominant RE that can collapse 1v1 versus the LT. But that Nickle Corner role evolution is a different article for another day.

Not a popular stance to write about, but sometimes you got to write what you see and not what you feel.


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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:39 am 
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Great breakdown, Max. To say the least. Wow.

DE is #2 need on my "needs" list behind WR for a variety of reasons..

Wake had 15 sacks last season.. and lets also keep in mind that he didn't have a sack until the Cardinals game in W4. JL and I were mocking the :x replacement refs in the first 3 games because of the amount of times Wake was held. 15 sacks easily could've been 17+.

Nailing the DE position has innumerable benefits:

1) More turnovers.
The observation that Wake is pressuring the QB against the RT position is a very good one. The Dolphins ranked #7 in sacks with 42. But, they didn’t come from unpredictable angles. Wake’s 15 sacks were seen by the QB, to some extent, because he was usually beating a RT. Pressuring the QB from both sides with Wake and a FA or 1st Round Draft pick, with Soliai and Odrick clogging the inside, will result in more turnovers because they will come from unpredictable angles.

2) Wake will be 32 at the end of the 2013 season.
The player I've always compared Wake to is John Abraham, who is now 34. Abraham has been able to put up 32.5 sacks over the last 3 years, largely because he’s been kept fresh.

3) Can move Odrick inside to DT to replace Starks.
Odrick is bigger, stronger, younger, and has more sacks and tackles for loss than Starks over the last 2 seasons. 4-3 DT is where Odrick needs to be. Re-signing Starks for 2 years requires the same 2-year commitment to playing Odrick out of place at DE, where he has no business playing. I’d rather use Starks’ dollars on a DE like Michael Johnson or Cliff Avril in Free Agency.

4) Can use Olivier Vernon more creatively.

I didn’t like the Vernon pick in the 3rd Round, but I’ve come to like the guy.. to an extent. He’s versatile – can play DE, stand-up OLB, an is already a top-notch ST’er. But he’s not a 10-sack guy as a 4-3 pass rusher.


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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:42 pm 
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Sample size. Pressures. Sacks not always only indication of pass rushing ability. I truly think he would have just as much success on the otherside if he actually spent any REAL amount of time there.

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 Post subject: Re: Miami 2012 Defensive Alignment
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:57 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
Sample size. Pressures. Sacks not always only indication of pass rushing ability. I truly think he would have just as much success on the otherside if he actually spent any REAL amount of time there.


The object of the game is to find a mismatch. Wake lines up where the weakest link is. What we need is someone that can clean up the pressure. We don't have that yet.

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